Mali

Us United States
(about 9 years ago)

Hello Palestine,

There are many Americans who do not support Obama's support of Isreal's attack right now. Here is a wonderful video of Alice Walker, a true American activist, talking about Palestine. I'm sending this out to connect to a world community that cares about peace and justice: http://www.democracynow.org/2012/9/28/palestine_conditions_more_brutal_than_in

Mormious

Il Israel
(about 9 years ago)

I have no sympathy for the occupation of Palestine. Still, I think the analogy with South Africa is not completely fair. Unlike in the case of South African apartheid, Israel and organizations within the Palestinian people have been at war. In the video you posted, at about 38 min Archbishop Tutu says "I do not myself believe that it has improved security" in fact it probably does account for most of the decrease in terrorist attacks since 2003. There is fair criticism that because the wall deviates from the green line, it has the effect of limiting movement of Palestinians, and that it may have an effect on future negotiations over the border. What would have been better on our part is ceding settlements (obviously) and building the wall along the green line. However, if we aren't ceding settlements, I think the issue is more complicated. Should we have denied the settlements protection? The issue is even trickier in Jerusalem, as East Jerusalem is very disputed and includes many Jewish neighborhoods, the ancient city (including the western wall) and the other campus of the university I'm studying at. So, did occupationist sentiments influence the construction of the wall? Of course, but even without those influences, it's still a complicated issue :(. Anyway, if you want to talk about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it is crucial to understand that we Israelis are thoroughly divided into occupation supporters, occupation opposers, and a large group in the middle that swing based on the security situation. Most of what Israel does is a sort of compromise between the two, and can be interpreted either as Israeli nationalism or as a genuine defense measure that temporarily defers the peace process, depending on whom you ask. This intentional ambiguity is the reason that the center-right parties like Likkud maintain popularity. I am crossing my fingers that the left win a majority this election, but I don't know if it can happen.

Mali

Us United States
(almost 9 years ago)

" Anyway, if you want to talk about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it is crucial to understand that we Israelis are thoroughly divided into occupation supporters, occupation opposers, and a large group in the middle that swing based on the security situation."

Thank you Mormious for your message about S. Africa and Palestine. I appreciate your perspective greatly and meant to write earlier. :)

Mark2

Au Australia
(almost 9 years ago)

Really appreciate all the background and explanation, Mormious. Thanks for taking time to write that down.

BoricuaGuy

Us United States
(almost 9 years ago)

Just a quick note to affirm that you are correct: I and many other Americans do NOT support the USA policy of steadfast support of Israel in the face of the new settlements in the Palestinian territories. My own long-standing support of Israel ended a few years ago as I am convinced that Israel does NOT want to come to a peaceful arrangement with the Palestinians. I worry too that the upcoming elections in Israel will only bring Netanyahu back to power and further reduce the chances for a real and lasting peace in the region.

djf2451

Us United States
(over 8 years ago)
  1. There is only one problem with your logic. G-D gave the land to the Jews (this is even recorded in your Qaran 5.5). 2. Originally the land was called Yisrael NOT Palestine. 3. The name Palestine comes from the Roman Empires first Roman Emperor - Julius Caesar Augustus. Born 63 BC in Rome - Died 14 AD Nola. Ruled 27AD - 14 AD. I see a lot of people in here really need to learn about their own history before they start telling other people about their history !

Mormious

Il Israel
(over 8 years ago)

@djf2451 I am a Jew from Israel. There are some Jews who make the same arguments you made to justify the occupation of the Palestinian territories. I just want to explain to you why that sort of argument isn't enough to settle the dispute. Firstly, the Palestinians may sometimes argue that we are not really the Jewish people, that we are Europeans who have come to conquer their land under the pretense of being the Jews. Even if you get them to agree that modern Jews really are descended from the ancient Hebrews (which is true), as far as Muslims are concerned, Muslims are the chosen people and the spiritual descendants of the ancient Hebrews. Mohammed is the final prophet, his revelation is the last word and the rest is history. You can try to argue, but I'm just telling you what they believe. Secondly, and this should be obvious, neither Israel nor her supporters are obligated to base their policies on one interpretation of scripture or another. Although, as I mentioned above, there are very religious factions in Israeli politics, Israel can be said to function as a secular state. Most Israelis AND Palestinians are rather secular, and will base their arguments on the last one or two hundred years of history, not two thousand years. So in conclusion, everyone involved is well aware of the history and various religious traditions of this land, but they either disagree about them, or consider them irrelevant to the modern conflict.

petlip

Us United States
(over 8 years ago)

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